In the months leading up to my planned conversion of my 1985 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 to a dual fuel gasoline/LPG alternative fuel vehicle, I began to have engine troubles. Most of these having to do with timing. For a while I thought I had the problem licked, but shortly thereafter I had a complete failure while driving home from Milwaukee and haven’t been able to get it running since. I figure the trouble is either the camshaft is worn to the point that it just can’t be timed, or the distributor is junk. Either way, I decided it’s time to consider replacing the engine, with over 100k it was just tired. I began to look for a deal.
The Fiero uses a GM 2.5l FWD 4 cylinder engine, known as the Iron Duke. I could find a GM crate replacement for 1200-1400 dollars, but the engine would then have cost me more than the car. I kept searching. I found a remanufactured replacement for $650, but I kept searching. Then I found one for $499, which I decided was a good enough deal, after all, a rebuild kit would cost me almost that much. Money was a little tight at the time, so I decided to delay the purchase a bit, while I concentrated on some other priorities. Then I was perusing craigslist a few weeks ago and stumbled on an ad in the Eau Claire area. It advertised ‘CLOSEOUT ON REBUILT ENGINES, low cost 4 & 6 cyls’. Well, I needed a 4 cyl, I was interested, would they possibly have mine? I read on… ‘Rebuilt engine liquidation – 25% of GARAGE PRICE – No V8s – 4 & 6 Cylinders only’. There was a website, http://www.engat25.com. Oh, I thought, It’ll probably be a scam, but I went to the site anyway.
Whoa! I was impressed, and according to the site, they did indeed have my engine, and it was 320 bucks! I gave the guy a call. Evidently, the engines were from a remanufacturing outfit in Escanaba, MI called Cloverland Engines that had gone out of business. Some guy in Duluth had bought their remaining stock and had been selling the engines at a discount. He’d wanted to get out of it, so he’d sold what remained of the stock to the guy I called, who was in Minneapolis. I had a few things to think about though, mainly that there was no warranty (that’s why they’re so cheap). Hmm, I could get a rebuild kit and do all the work myself, which wouldn’t be warrantied either which would have been about $450 plus machining costs; buy a $499 reman’d engine plus pay shipping (which I don’t think had a warranty either); or jog over and pick up this deal for $320 and gas. Really a no brainer. I promptly took a trip to the twin cities to pick up my new baby. It was really kind of hard to leave there with only one, to tell the truth.
The remanufactured engine, shrink wrapped:
So, then it was time to pull the old engine. Those familiar with Fieros will already know the engine, transmission and rear suspension are all attached to a cradle. Removal of this assembly must be done as a whole unit, lowered to the ground and slid out after lifting the car to a 30 – 45 degree angle. Of course, disconnect everything first. If you’re doing this for the first time I’ll give you a tip. I’ve found it much easier and faster to disconnect the wiring harness at the passenger fender wall by the battery and at the driver’s side of the computer, rather than disconnect the harness from all the connectors and retainers on the engine, leaving the harness with the car when you drop the engine. My way, you only have 2 things to disconnect, the way the Haynes manual says means disconnecting everything but the 2 things I tell you to. My way, even if you do have to disconnect the entire wiring harness and unweave it from in and around all the components, you can do so in comfort with the engine out of the vehicle, rather than trying to maneuver in that cramped engine compartment.
Getting the engine out:
These are a few for my own use, to get the thing back together properly:
This is a picture of an insert in the old crankshaft that didn’t exist on my new engine. Don’t bother trying, you simply can’t remove it, so I had to track one down, which I could only find one at the dealer… about $12.00.
The Engine, unveiled:
As I’m transfering the engine’s various brackets, accessories, sheetmetal, sensors and whatever, I’m scrubbing, cleaning, sanding, and painting them. I’d like to have a somewhat decent looking result when I’m done. The longblock already had a blue theme, so I decided not to fight it. If I develop a leak down the road, it’ll be easy to spot.
Engine assemblification:
Then I replaced the control arm bushings and front cradle mounts with urethane bushings from Prothane, replaced the transmission mounts and cleaned up the tranny and cradle. I followed that with several coats of rust converter primer, and 4 coats of spray on bed liner. Looks good!
Now it was time to put that crankshaft insert in. I took a piece of thick steel, and used the flexplate to mark 3 evenly spaced holes, which I drilled out on my drill press. I purchased 3 bolts of the same thread but longer, plus 3 nuts. Then you just center the insert in the crankshaft and install the steel plate and bolts finger tight. Tighten each bolt half a turn each at a time. When you are half way there, back each bolt out one at a time and thread the nuts on and reinstall the bolts. Now just turn each nut a half turn at a time until the insert is fully seated.
Once that was done I installed the flexplate and torque converter. Then it was time to get the engine bolted to the transmission and cradle.
Going in!!!
THE GOOD NEWS:
Over the last few days I’ve been hooking up the fuel, coolant, brakes, vacuum lines etc. and otherwise tidying up the install. Today I rigged up a few things to give the engine the first start attempt. After futzing with the timing a bit it was clear the distributor was way off, so I began to search for the number one and four firing positions by only connecting the 1 and 4 plug wires to the distributor in varying positions and giving it a crank.
The Iron Duke firing order is 1-3-4-2, so if you put the 1 and 4 wires on opposite terminals, rotate the distributor each crank attempt, and then index the wires to the next set of terminals, you can check the full 360 degrees of timing (which is 2 revolutions of the crank, or 720 degrees) to find the firing positions. 1 and 4 fire 360 degrees from each other (or 180 degrees on the distributor) so the engine should catch and limp along with an even firing rhythm when you find the sweet spot. See the diagram:
After doing this for a bit I found the right spot and the engine actually ran so good on the 2 cylinders I had enough time to snug up the distributor and had to go turn the car off.
THE BAD NEWS:
As I was hooking the #2 and 3 plug wires back up in their new positions, my girlfriend pointed out there was liquid dripping from underneath the car. I just figured one of my coolant connections had leaked, it was just a small amount, and I continued on my task. She sopped a bit up with a shop rag and sniffed it, it didn’t smell like gas or oil, but the mostly clear fluid had a little blackness to it. I threw an ice cream pail lid under the car to catch a little, and tried to start the car on all 4 plug wires. It sounded kind of promising but it didn’t start, it did much better on just 2 cylinders. I was able to take the 2 and 3 back off and start it on just the 1 and 4 again, so my mind began to swim, trying to figure out what was wrong.
I decided to try to see where the water was coming from. It was dripping off the exhaust at the lowest point. I couldn’t see much from above, so I jacked up the car and slid under. I followed the drip line up the exhaust and looked up at the coolant connections. It was all dry up there, not a leak. Looking back down at the exhaust, the water seemed to start near some of my welds at the input of the flowmaster muffler I’d put on. At first I was kind of irritated at the realization that my welds weren’t perfect and air tight, but I got over it, it was a very, very small leak that had clued me into this mysterious problem.
I checked the liquid that had been caught in the ice cream lid. I knew that it was water right away, with what appeared to be carbon in it. Then it all started to fall together.
The flowmaster was previously used for a short time on my Dodge Ramcharger, which was running really rich at the time. Carbon, and plenty of it.
When I filled the coolant, I had poured the straight coolant in first, then the water. The two will tend to stay separated until the engine is started and the water pump mixes them up in time. This means the coolant will be at the lower portion of the cooling system, while the water remains near the top. This is especially true in the unusually large cooling system of the Fiero. So the area of the intake, engine block and especially the head would have mostly pure water in it.
Immediately I thought back. I had INTENDED to check the torque of the head, but I’d forgotten. Hopefully the head bolts just need to be torqued, otherwise I may have to replace the head gasket. Hmm, could be water’s getting into the cylinder(s) and out the exhaust.
So, I guess my next task is to pop the valve cover and torque the head bolts. Do me a favor and cross your fingers, would ya? I’d really, really prefer this to be a nice, easy fix. Damn, I knew I should have checked those head bolts. Oh, wait, I’m first going to check the pushrod cover on the side of the engine, this is a common place for leaks, and a whole lot easier to fix than the head gasket, and right above that flowmaster, though it’s hard to see. The ‘carbon’ could possibly be paint overspray.
Yup, tomorrow should be fun.
I checked the pushrod cover. That wasn’t it, and as I got to thinking about the problem more clearly I realized this couldn’t be it. I did check the head bolts and that wasn’t the problem. I felt I had to pop the head off anyway, since I wanted to clean up the wet cylinder, so I did. In so doing I replaced the head gasket and head bolts, plus the valve cover gasket.
As I thought more and more about the problem I realized that it’s likely the problem I’m having now is the same problem I was having before I replaced the engine. It was when I was starting and running the engine on 1 and 4 I found out there was water getting into the #3 cylinder – this is something I hadn’t done on the old engine. When I tried to run the new engine on all 4 cylinders, and when I tried to run it on just 2 & 3, I’d been getting a fairly high amount of white smoke. I now realized this wasn’t smoke, but steam. When the #3 was getting spark it would ignite the fuel in the cylinder and flash the water into steam. When I ran it without spark to #3 the water would enter the exhaust system and leak out by the muffler. I saw this same white ‘smoke’ when I was trying to get the old engine running when the problem first occurred. I didn’t think much about it then, I knew I wasn’t getting proper combustion so the whiteness of the smoke didn’t phase me.
If indeed the problem is the same as on the old engine I either have to suspend my belief in probability and consider the possibility that the old engine and the newly remanufactured engine have the same defect or flaw, or I have to assume that something that was swapped from the old engine to the new long block is the cause. I’d gotten a long block so the head was new too, so that couldn’t be it.
Whatever the culprit, it had to have something to do with both the coolant system AND the fuel/air or combustion process. This assumption rules out the exhaust manifold, water pump, alternator, crank shaft pulley and oil pan. The only other thing that was swapped was the intake manifold (and throttle body), which just happens to be the only thing besides the head that handles the fuel/air AND coolant.
I examined the intake manifold in detail and found nothing and the coolant chamber fuel/air sections are totally independent of each other, with no plugs or other bridge between them.
I posed this hypothesis to my local auto guru. I’d simply never heard of nor experienced an intake manifold leaking water into the fuel/air section without a crack or a leaking plug or something. He, of course, said it happens all the time with chevy small blocks. The problem is erosion. I couldn’t replicate the problem by pressurizing the manifold with air, however, but I decided to replace the manifold on faith.
So that’s ordered. So are some parts for the Dodge.
In the mean time, I relocated the battery to the front and ran my transmission lines. Moving the battery to the front helps even out the weight distribution. I had also replaced the battery with something that had a bit more oomph, which didn’t fit in the stock location. For now it’s just sitting in the spare tire well until I build a box that’ll get it out of the way of the spare. With that in mind I’ll have to track down a spare some time in the future. That’d be nice to have, eh?
The old tranny lines are beat up, rusted and leaking. These lines are rather vulnerable, running up along the driver’s side coolant pipe in line with the wheels. The fiero store has new stainless ones but they’re expensive and new bend-your-own mild steel ones are pointless, they’ll just start rusting and getting hammered with road debris right away. I decided to do hose all the way to the radiator. I didn’t see any reason why I couldn’t, so I did. They’re a little on the pricey side, but super easy to install and very resistant to impact.
I ran the trans lines up the drivers side of the tunnel and the battery cables up the passenger side of the tunnel, along the heater and AC pipes.
I got the intake yesterday, another ebay score, and started to get it bolted up. I should get it wrapped up tomorrow and be able to give it another start. Unfortunately the ‘chrome’ powdercoat doesn’t go well with my black and blue theme, but I just want it running. I can deal with asthetics later.
Over the past week I’ve been trying to figure out what the problem is with the engine. To that end I’ve been cranking and cranking it getting more and more frustrated. I’d been having trouble with the starter since I got the car a year or so ago, and it finally went. Toast. So as you can see, I replaced the starter.
Then I began to think back over the project, and one of the first things I thought the problem was to begin with. The distributor. I took it out and began to disassemble it. I quickly found out what the problem was: (you may have to hit refresh)
Yeah, that’s the distributor shaft and no the stator shouldn’t move. It’s supposed to be set in position in relation to the rotor position by the factory. If it moves there’s no way to get the timing right. Fortunately the new one has an improved design.
Shortly after getting the new distributor I stuck it in and got it started and timed. Finally! It runs! That was it! So as of 99727 miles, my Fiero has a new engine.
Damn distributor.
I got the transmission fluid and coolant topped off and got all the tools cleared off the car and took it for a spin. Looking good, runs great. I’m going to get a few more things tidied up tomorrow and decide if I’m ready to drive it to work tomorrow. I still need an alignment since I replaced the struts, but first I want to replace the tie rods, but it seems pretty close. CHECK IT OUT! ——>
Jeeze. I can’t catch a break! I drove the car around for 10-15 miles last night and it was fine. This morning I started it up to get it warm for a bit of driving to work the bugs out and suddenly it started pissing coolant on the ground. I shut it off and checked the hoses which were dry. I jacked it up, slid under to look up at the underside of the pump. Sure enough, the leak was from the weep hole of the pump. Kinda weird since I replaced the water pump last year when I got the car, but I did notice i’d put the belt on awful tight when I put everything back together. Off to the parts store for a new pump. At least that’s done. Plus I had enough time to put another 50 miles on.
It got me to work tonight. Hey, what’s so funny… that’s an achivement. Anyone got odds on whether I make it home?
Should have taken the bet, the five letter f-bomb decided to develop problems on the way home. While I did get home it wasn’t without trouble. I was about a half hour late because I kept stopping to try to find the issue. The trans is exhibiting some shifting funkularities, and the engine experiences random quarter second power losses accompanied by an engine light flash but the computer stores no codes. Most likely a grounding issue, but maybe a trans plug issue. We’ll see. But it does idle great.
Nope. Not that. Looks like the common, and dreaded, Fiero sticking torque converter lockup solenoid. I also downloaded winALDL and built the aldl to serial adaptor – and got a serial to usb converter because my laptop doesn’t have a serial port. Neither does my computer, HA! I’m also using ALDLview for graphical viewing. Very cool…
I’ve completed the torque converter lockup solenoid replacment and it would seem all is well. I won’t bore you with the details, enough Fiero owners have done how-tos on this I don’t need to add my bumbling efforts to the mix, there’s a couple good ones here and here.
I took it out for an hour drive trying to replicate the problems I was having. So far, so good. Keep your fingers crossed.